Anne: It would be
people's best interest if face veil is not banned. Look up "burqa
bandits". Face veil is used by robbers to hide their identity, it is no
different to wearing a ski mask. They get away with it because no one can
identify them.
Hu: A face veil hides a Muslim lady’s identity ONLY
IF she denies to remove her face veil for identification purposes. Muslim
ladies always unveil their faces in places like banks & airports for
identification purposes. The “concealment of identity” is an artificial/manufactured issue
created by Islamophobes to oppress Muslim ladies. There is absolutely no
“concealment of identity” because Muslim ladies always unveil their faces,
whenever necessary for identification purposes. Moreover, if security personnel
in banks & airports fail to check for guns and the identity of a robber
wearing face veil before allowing that robber entry to banks & airports,
then it is a fault of security personnel, but not a fault of Muslim ladies.
Furthermore, just because
sometimes robbers use face veil doesn’t mean we have to ban face veil. Guns
play a way bigger role in robbery than masks or face veils. Robbed people
comply with robbers because robbers use guns to threaten the lives of robbed
people. Robbed people don’t comply with robbers because of the masks or face
veils of robbers. Will any idiot claim that gun should be banned because guns
are used in robbery? No idiot will say that because it’s not the mask or gun
that is to blame but the action of robbery. Masks and guns are lifeless things
you can either use for good or bad purposes. And that’s why it is legal for you
to carry a licensed gun with you in public and private places.
Also, you need to
understand the difference between rights & privileges. Privileges are
conditional and can be taken away, for example, citizenship, driver’s license,
etc. Rights are unconditional and cannot be taken away no matter what, for
example, the right to life, the right to freedom of speech, etc. Article 18 of
the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of Human Rights says religious people
has the right (NOT: privilege) to manifest their religious beliefs in public
and private places. Not allowing Muslim ladies to wear religious face veil is a
clear violation of Article 18 of the United Nations’ Universal Declaration of
Human Rights. If any Western country under influence of right wing Islamophobes
wants to violate United Nations’ Charter of Human Rights, then I will invite
that Western country to give up their UN membership first.
Anne: You
may not know but there are banks and other institutions where you are not
allowed to carry guns in. A ski mask wearer and motorcyclists remove their
helmets and ski masks before entering banks not just for identification
purposes but for some other reasons too. For example, someone may feel
uncomfortable or scared seeing a man or woman in a ski mask or motorcycle
helmet. The same rules should apply to Muslim women as apply to all other
citizens. Muslim women should not be treated differently. They would have to
remove their veil before entering banks. I am simply asking for all people to
be treated the same, is that ok?
Hu: Firstly, I do know there are some institutions
where you cannot carry guns in because of security reasons. Because unlike face
veils, guns can be used to physically harm others. Trying to put guns and face
veil into same category is simply idiotic because guns and knives are weapons
but a face veil is not. Moreover, it is not only some institutions where
Islamophobes want to ban face veils in. Islamophobes want to ban face veils
everywhere including all public and private places. For example, it is a discrimination
against Muslim ladies in France because they are not allowed to wear face veil
in public places but all other people are allowed who cover their faces for
non-religious purposes. Riot police, doctors, anonymous activities,
wrestlers, & ordinary people on special days such as Halloween day &
New Year’s Eve are allowed to wear masks but poor Muslim ladies are not.
Islamophobes are hypocrites and use double standards to oppress Muslim ladies.
Secondly, if someone’s
identification is verified at the entrance of a venue, then there is no point
of not letting that person not to wear a face veil in that venue. Because the
main reason Islamophobes say they want to ban religious face veil is the
“concealment of identity”. Once you provide your identification to security
personnel in banks & airports, the issue of “concealment of identity” is
resolved.
Thirdly, as for your claim
that my religious face veil making others uncomfortable, who gives a damn if
people who have different cultures and religions from me are uncomfortable by my culture and religion? Why do I have to change my culture and religion for
people suffering from xenophobia? Will those xenophobes change their cultures
and religions if I claim I’m uncomfortable by their cultures and religions? No,
they won’t. It doesn’t matter if my religion and culture make others uneasy. As
long as I don’t harm others, I’m free to practice my religion and culture. If
you don’t like freedom we westerners as a whole stand for, then go live in
North Korea or Iran or France. No one is forcing you to live in the West. As
for your claim that my religious face veil making others scared in a bank, why
should a person get scared by my face veil if that person has trust in security
personnel of that bank who have already checked me for guns and verified my
identification? It’s not my religious face veil that make Islamophobes
uncomfortable but their lack of trust in the security personnel of that
bank. A person who doesn’t have trust in the security personnel of
bank should close his/her bank account with that bank and find another bank.
Fourthly, comparing
motorcycle helmet and ski mask with religious face veil is idiotic. People’s
religious beliefs, such as wearing face veil as an essential part of their
lives. People are sensitive to their religious right to wear face veil in a
bank but not the privilege to wear a motorcycle helmet in a bank. It is
considered a “right” by UN’s Charter of Rights to be able to wear religious
clothing in public and private places. On the other hand, it is considered a
“privilege” to be able to wear helmets & ski mask in public and private
places. As I mentioned earlier, a “right” can’t be taken away but a “privilege”
can be.
Anne: Shiks came to the UK in the 70s and rode motorbikes with a turban on they're heads and said, I DON'T NEED TO WEAR A HELMET, ITS AGAINST MY RELIGION. They now all abide by our laws. Don't you see how ridiculous your argument is? The law is the law and you need to accept it Hu.
Hu: The law NEVER ordered Sikhs to take off their turbans. The law ordered a helmet to be worn (over a turban). That’s all. Sikhs wear turbans in military instead of designated military hats because the law is not supposed to violate the fundamental freedoms our western civilization is built upon.The purpose of wearing a turban in Sikhism is to protect hair from dust as Sikhism considers hair a holy thing. There are 4 major types of Sikh turbans. You CAN wear a helmet over Patka & Keski turbans. The law didn’t take away the religious freedom of Sikhs. Neither did it diminish the purpose of wearing a turban by obligating a helmet to be worn over a turban.
Anne: These
women are forced to wear these second class uniforms either directly (by
husbands/fathers/uncles) or indirectly (religious/social pressure) or their own
perceived chastity/piety. This is a suppression of woman rights.
Hu: As for
your claim that Muslim ladies being indirectly forced to wear face veil by their
own perceived chastity, let me ask you something- What is wrong with forcing
yourself to do good deeds and preventing yourself from falling into the
temptation to commit evil deeds? Will anyone disagree that Muslim ladies dress
more modesty and decently than Non-Muslim ladies? No one will
disagree with that. But let me tell you how Western cultural ladies are
indirectly being forced to wear indecent and dangerous outfits and footwear by
their own perceived beauty. We all know how indecent tight pants are that
Western cultural ladies wear. Each and every guy in the street can see the
shape and size of their buttocks in their tight pants. Moreover, the high heel
Western cultural ladies wear are very dangerous for them. Have you ever seen a
Western cultural lady walking on high heels? They literally torture themselves
to look tall and often accident happens when they lose control or balance of
their body.
As for your claim that
Muslim ladies being directly forced to wear face veil by their household males,
let me ensure you that they are not forced to wear face veil in Europe. They
are forced in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran. But let’s say they are
forced to wear veil in Europe for the sake of argument since your tiny brain
with limited capacity thinks so. Both a government forcing them not to wear
veil & household males forcing them to wear it result in violation of
women's right to choose. Women should not be forced by anyone on what to wear
or not to wear. Because women are not less than men as the greatest western
scholars Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle thought. I stand by people's right
& freedom especially for the minority living under a government that
desperately tries to take away rights & freedom of the minority to please
the majority. Why don't you go live in Saudi Arabia or Iran if you don't like
human rights and love seeing people being stripped away from their human
rights? I bet you would love living in Saudi Arabia or Iran because you have no
respect for human rights. Our founding fathers built our Western civilization upon four fundamental principles: (i) freedom of speech (ii) freedom of religion (iii) freedom of assembly (iv) freedom of association. The left (Liberals) want to defend these freedoms but the right (Fascists) want to attack them.
References:
“Everyone has the right to
freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to
change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with
others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching,
practice, worship and observance”(Article 18 of the United Nations’ Universal
Declaration of Human Rights)
