Pagan Origins of Islam

Once I had a conversation with a Christian on YouTube about the Kaba and the black stone next to Kaba. Below is the transcription of our conversation:

Jerry: Muslims are pagans because they worship the black stone next to Kaba. That black stone is an idol because Muslims kiss that stone. Muslims believe that black stone takes away the sin of whoever kisses it and becomes darker as a consequence of absorbing people’s sin.

Hu: First, nowhere in the Quran or in the hadith does it say the stone absorbs/takes away the sin whoever kisses it. But for the sake of the argument, let’s say the stone absorbs/takes away sins from the people who kiss it. Does it make that stone a god? No, it doesn't. The stone absorbs/takes away sin from people like Jesus did according to Christianity. But it doesn't forgive the sin. Only god can forgive the sin. Both black stone & Jesus take away other people's sin & place other people's sin on their own shoulder. The stone is turned black by God for taking away people's sin & placing people's sin on its own shoulder. Jesus was sentenced to death by God for taking away people's sin & placing people's sin on his own shoulder.

If I ask the judge to let you go free & punish me for your crime, do I become the judge? The answer is “No”. If the judge sentences me for your crime since I volunteered to place your crime on my shoulder, do I become the judge? The answer is “No”. This is basic common sense.

Prophet's companion Umar makes it clear that neither the stone is a partner of God nor it can benefit or harm Muslims (e.g., taking away sin/giving out sins). (Sahih Bukhari 2:667)

Secondly, Muslims don’t associate that stone with God as his partner by kissing it. Kissing something is not synonymous with associating that thing with God as his partner. Muslims kiss that stone because Prophet Muhummud kissed it. Muslims love it because Prophet Muhummud loved it. Muslims love what Prophet Muhummud loves. Muslims hate what Prophet Muhummud hates. Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Muhummud. We kiss the things we love. For example, our holy books, parents, wives, children, wedding ring, trophy, gold medal, and I can go on and on. Do we associate these things with God as his partners by kissing them? The answer is “No”.

Thirdly, you don't understand the definition of an idol in religious terminology. An idol is an image or statue of God that represents God. For example, Christians, Greeks, Hindus, & Buddhists are idol worshipers because they draw images and make statues of their Man God Jesus, Zeus, Rama, and Buddha. Islamic God Allah is an intangible being who is unlike all things in the creation (Quran 42:11 & 112:4). Therefore, we can't point our finger at anything in the creation (e.g., trees, stones, animals, humans) and say that thing looks like Allah or represents Allah.

Jerry: Kaba was built by pagans.

Hu: Kaba was renovated/rebuilt many times after it collapsed due to wars and natural disasters. It was renovated multiple times before prophet's birth, one time at the time of prophet & one time after prophet's death. But the Kaba was first built by Abraham & Ishmael as Quran confirms it.  The Kaba that we see today is not the same Kaba that was constructed by Abraham & Ishmael. But we still have one of the stones reserved that was used by Abraham & Ishmael to build the Kaba. That stone is called "black stone" today. Muslim holy site Kaba was built about 4000 years ago by Abraham & Ishmael. Judaeo-Christian holy site temple Mount was built by Moses about 3000 years ago. Subtract 3000 from 4000. Its 1000. Islam is at least 1000 years older than Judaeo-Christian religion.

Jerry: Who placed that black stone in the east side of Kaba? Why Mohamed destroyed all other 360 idols and left the black stone? Are you aware that Kaba was an idol worshiping place in the past? Before Islam, idol worshippers used to circle 7 times around the Kaba and then they kiss the stone. Islam made Kaba a holy place when idol worshipers were there before Islam.

Hu: You asked who placed that black stone in the east side of Kaba. God ordered Prophet Abraham to build a house of God (mosque) in Mecca. Prophet Abraham asked God which location he should build it at. In response, God sent a stone down from the heaven and ordered Prophet Abraham to build the house of God where the stone landed. Prophet Abraham and his son Prophet Ishmael built a house of God (mosque) where the stone landed. The mosque is called Kaba. That stone is the “foundation stone” of Kaba. This stone helps Muslims to count the number of times they circle around the Kaba. Muslims start circumambulating Kaba from the point where the stone is located. Each time Muslims pass that stone during their circumambulation, they add one to their count on their fingers. Thus, Muslims circumambulate Kaba for seven times.

You asked why Prophet (sw) destroyed all 360 idols but left the stone. People of Mecca stored 360 statues of their pagan Gods in Kaba. Prophet (sw) destroyed all 360 statues because they were idols. Prophet (sw) didn’t destroy that stone because that stone was not an idol (neither an image nor a statue of a pagan God).

You asked if I am aware that Kaba was an idol worshiping place before Islam. Kaba was the first house of God (mosque) on earth built by Prophet Abraham and his son Prophet Ismael (The Quran 22:26, 22:26-27). Prophet Abraham was a Muslim, not a pagan (The Quran 3:67). The people of Mecca were the direct descendants of Prophet Abraham and Prophet Ismael. Prophet Abraham and Prophet Ismael taught their children the monotheistic religion Islam. But over centuries, their descendants (people of Mecca) adopted pagan beliefs and became pagans. They turned the Kaba from a mosque into a pagan temple. They built statues of Allah and pagan Gods they associated Allah with. They drew images of their forefathers Prophet Abraham and his son Prophet Ismael. They stored these statues and images in the Kaba (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 571). Prophet re-occupied the Kaba from pagans, emptied the Kaba by kicking out all statues and images pagans stored in it, and turned it back into a mosque again.

You asked if I am aware that Idol worshippers used to circle around the Kaba and kiss the stone before Islam. Circumambulating Kaba was introduced by Prophet Abraham because God ordered him to do so (The Quran 2:125). Pagans didn’t invent circumambulation of Kaba. Kissing the stone was introduced by Prophet Muhummud. In pre-Islamic Arabia, pagans took good care of that stone since it was the foundation stone of Kaba but they never used to kiss it. No hadiths or historians ever mentioned that pagans used to kiss it. As I mentioned before, we kiss things we love. Prophet Muhummud loved that stone because that stone was sent from heaven by God. Muslims love what Prophet Muhummud loves. Muslims follow the footsteps of Prophet Muhummud. This is why Muslims kiss that stone. As I mentioned earlier, taking good care of something or kissing something out of love is not synonymous with associating that thing with God as his partner. Instead, making statues of something or drawing something believing that thing represents God and asking those statues for help is synonymous with associating partners with God.

Jerry: You bow down to Kaba and pray. Kaba is your idol.

Hu: We bow down to Kaba and pray to God, NOT to Kaba. Kaba is a house of God (Mosque). Muslims are allowed to pray inside the Kaba too. Kaba is a small mosque with two doors – one for entrance and the other for exit. Bible allows praying to God bowing down towards God’s house (Psalm 138:2).

Jerry: I like the part that the Arabs, the descendants of Ismael became pagans over centuries. Lol.

Hu: A century is a pretty long time. They didn’t become pagans when Prophet Ismael was with them alive. After he passes away, his descendants forgot his teachings and adopted pagan beliefs. Jews, the descendants of Isaac made higher score in becoming pagans than Arabs, the descendants of Ismael. Jews became pagans even when Prophet Moses was alive among them. When Prophet Moses departed Jews and ascended Mount Sinai only for forty days, Jews became pagans. They built the statue of a golden calf and preached that golden calf was Allah (Exodus 32:7-8).

References:

·         Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia: 'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you." (Sahih al-Bukhari 2:667)

·         “…There is nothing like unto Him (God)…” (The Quran 42:11).

·         “And there is none like unto Him” (The Quran 112:4).

·         "And when we assigned to Abraham the place of the House: ‘Do not associate with Me anything, and purify My House for those who circumambulate it, who stand in prayer, and who bow, and prostrate themselves (all in prayer).’  And proclaim the Pilgrimage (Hajj) among people, and they shall come to you on foot, and on every lean camel.  They shall come to you from every deep and distant mountain highways." (Quran 22:26)

·         "Indeed the first House (of worship) appointed for humanity is that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.  In it are Signs Manifest; (such as), the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; Pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to God,- those who have the ability." (Quran 22:26-27)

·         “And [mention] when We made the House a place of return for the people and [a place of] security. And take, [O believers], from the standing place of Abraham a place of prayer. And We charged Abraham and Ishmael, [saying], "Purify My House for those who circumambulate around my house and those who are staying [there] for worship and those who bow and prostrate [in prayer]." (Quran 2:125)

·         Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a Muslim. (Quran 3:67)

·         Narrated Ibn Abbas:  "When the Prophet saw pictures in the Ka'ba, he did not enter it till he ordered them to be erased. When he saw the pictures of Abraham and Ishmael carrying the arrows of divination, he said, "May Allah curse them (i.e. the Quraish)! By Allah, neither Abraham nor Ishmael practiced divination by arrows."  (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 571)

·         "I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word" (Psalm 138:2).

·         ‘Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down (the mountain), because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’ (Exodus 32:7-8)